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View Full Version : Repro Luftwaffe 2nd model dagger - Spanish fake


Santi
12th July 2008, 12:50
I thought i would share some photos of my repro luftwaffe dagger just as a warning to not make a mistake if you see a similar one for sale.
It is a spanish fake.

Santi
12th July 2008, 12:53
More pics....

Santi
12th July 2008, 12:54
Last one...

Wim Vangossum
27th July 2008, 10:03
That's a horrible fake or rather a Spanish souvenir piece.

Regards, Wim :)

Santi
27th July 2008, 10:48
It is, but i still like it because its the closest thing i can get to an original!! :wink:

Swordfish
27th July 2008, 16:05
Santis appears to be one of the later Spanish repros. I've handled some of the repro Spanish early pieces, for example the 1st Luft with the Holler mark. These pieces are still not up to par but enough to trick a novice collector. The Mm on them is quite bad. The thermom has very few degree marks and they are of very poor quality. Additionally, as time elapsed, the companies changed the Holler mark to read things like "Holler Berlin", "Holler Spain" as a result of litigation from Solinger firms(as I understand it). The Morroccan leather on these is quite bad. The same companies that manufactured the 1st mods, also manufactured 2nd mods of course. The earlier 2nd mods are not convincing either, but again enough to fool the uninitiated collector.

There are Atwood repros floating around (which are collectible in thier own way), modern repros, early repros. The quality of Atwoods piece are superior to the Spanish peices, however the as such, the repros made in Espania are alot more affordabel for an interested collector.

Santi
27th July 2008, 16:37
Santis appears to be one of the later Spanish repros. I've handled some of the repro Spanish early pieces, for example the 1st Luft with the Holler mark. These pieces are still not up to par but enough to trick a novice collector. The Mm on them is quite bad. The thermom has very few degree marks and they are of very poor quality. Additionally, as time elapsed, the companies changed the Holler mark to read things like "Holler Berlin", "Holler Spain" as a result of litigation from Solinger firms(as I understand it). The Morroccan leather on these is quite bad. The same companies that manufactured the 1st mods, also manufactured 2nd mods of course. The earlier 2nd mods are not convincing either, but again enough to fool the uninitiated collector.

There are Atwood repros floating around (which are collectible in thier own way), modern repros, early repros. The quality of Atwoods piece are superior to the Spanish peices, however the as such, the repros made in Espania are alot more affordabel for an interested collector.

Interesting info. I didnt know that. :wink:

One day at my highschool we recieved lots of people from universities, courses institutes, and all those things, plus the 3 branches of the Armed Forces. It was like a educational visit for helping us what to do after we graduated. It was pretty cool, but it got more interesting after i saw a dagger on one of the officers that came. It really looked familiar...and i asked him "That dagger is inspired on the german Luftwaffe ones, isnt it?". He smiled and said "Yes" and i had a chance to see it closer when he showed it to me. The Air Force here in Uruguay has the EXACT same daggers for their officers, but without the swastikas. Im not kidding. Before i asked him they indeed looked familiar but i never thought they would be identical twins. He said: "Its the same dagger but instead of the swastika, it has the national emblem (from Uruguay). Would you believe me if i told you that it even had the flying luftwaffe eagle?! Well, you'd better because thats how they are!!! But of course, that in the claws, it didnt have the swastika, but it was something very interesting. It even had the same scabbard and similar hangers.

Wim Vangossum
27th July 2008, 17:07
Hi Santi,

If you only want a copy of a second model luftwaffe I think there exist types who comes much closer to originals. Can't give a site immediatly but anyway; they exist. I think even some spanish reproductions from Toledo come much closer than the one you have. It has a bit to much fantasy features IMO. :001_rolleyes:

Regards, Wim

Santi
27th July 2008, 17:12
Hi Santi,

If you only want a copy of a second model luftwaffe I think there exist types who comes much closer to originals. Can't give a site immediatly but anyway; they exist. I think even some spanish reproductions from Toledo come much closer than the one you have. It has a bit to much fantasy features IMO. :001_rolleyes:

Regards, Wim

Yes the engraving is very fantasy. Not actually looking to get one though, its fine with this one as a filler. Just for the record, im not a reproduction collector, i got this one as a gift from a relative who bought it in spain, so i really dont mind that it isnt very good quality like the original ones.
Thanks for the tip thought! :wink:

Swordfish
27th July 2008, 17:39
On the topic of repros for display, i've seen some close, nice ones that were not cheap. Around $175. For those dollars, I hold off and save another $150 and buy a decent example from the forums. I've seen some pretty clean examples sell for $300-350 from time to time. I cannot plop down $650 on a regular, fair condition 2nd model. Some colllectors set thier sites way too high and believe that since a dealer want $650 for thier dagger, then the seller shoudl also get $650. There was a recent discussion about this on another forum. It's true. Dealers seem to puch the threshold as far as they can, and collectors then set the bar at those prices...which is not sustainable.

Anyway, there are good repros out there to fill in till the time comes to buy an original. I avoid the repros. If I can't afford the piece, then I just don't buy it. I know my situation is different from other collectors and I respect each collectors passions as well as thier financial situation. At the end of the day, it's all about if the collector is comfortable, and happy with what he has.

Keep and eye on Robert I's site collector to collector. He has some smoking prices from time to time as far as dealer sites go. He's a stand up guy as well. Paul H also has some very good prices as well. I typically don't buy from dealers, but should a piece come along that I really would like, I will bend my rules and pay the extra premium to add the piece to my collection.

Santi, that's interesting about the Ura. airforce. Many of the smaller latin american countries militaria were modeled after the German forces. I suspect it's because after the war, many Luft officers becamse advisors in South America. Argentian is probably the best example. Adolf Galland had worked for a number of years there training pilots, and structuring thier airforce. I read that he was bummed after the battle of the falklins when the British cleaned up. He spoke very highley of the Argentinian airforce and the pilots though.

Tom

Santi
27th July 2008, 17:48
On the topic of repros for display, i've seen some close, nice ones that were not cheap. Around $175. For those dollars, I hold off and save another $150 and buy a decent example from the forums. I've seen some pretty clean examples sell for $300-350 from time to time. I cannot plop down $650 on a regular, fair condition 2nd model. Some colllectors set thier sites way too high and believe that since a dealer want $650 for thier dagger, then the seller shoudl also get $650. There was a recent discussion about this on another forum. It's true. Dealers seem to puch the threshold as far as they can, and collectors then set the bar at those prices...which is not sustainable.

Anyway, there are good repros out there to fill in till the time comes to buy an original. I avoid the repros. If I can't afford the piece, then I just don't buy it. I know my situation is different from other collectors and I respect each collectors passions as well as thier financial situation. At the end of the day, it's all about if the collector is comfortable, and happy with what he has.

Keep and eye on Robert I's site collector to collector. He has some smoking prices from time to time as far as dealer sites go. He's a stand up guy as well. Paul H also has some very good prices as well. I typically don't buy from dealers, but should a piece come along that I really would like, I will bend my rules and pay the extra premium to add the piece to my collection.

Santi, that's interesting about the Ura. airforce. Many of the smaller latin american countries militaria were modeled after the German forces. I suspect it's because after the war, many Luft officers becamse advisors in South America. Argentian is probably the best example. Adolf Galland had worked for a number of years there training pilots, and structuring thier airforce. I read that he was bummed after the battle of the falklins when the British cleaned up. He spoke very highley of the Argentinian airforce and the pilots though.

Tom

Thanks for the tips, my friend.

We did have a lot of german influence, especially in Argentina as you mention, and also in Chile.
I did a project for highschool on that last year. An investigation with the relationships between the III Reich and South America, especially in Uruguay, Argentina, Chile and Brazil. We (my team) dedicated to study nazism and neo nazism in the continent, and like you say, we noticed that there were many ex nazis in high ranks of the goverments. Chile and Peron's Argentina had many ex nazis among them.
Anyway, but it could also be due to our (in Uruguay) lack in military imagination & experience! :biggrin: