Why TWO GPB manufacturers?

[Br. James]

Dear friends,

While I am very new to the GPB Forum I have been an avid student of the GPB within National Socialist history for well over a decade and a collector of the genre for about 50 years. I am therefore delighted to have found this forum in which to exchange ideas and information for the good of all GPB collectors. As I have studied the GPB I have regularly wondered why there were only two separate manufacturers of this badge when there could have been dozens, as there were for the NSDAP membership badge; why it was permitted to produce two such different designs of this rare and prestigeous award for early Party membership; how the GPB avoided coming under RZM inspection auspices; and how it was that the two separate manufacturers' products were integrated into the ordering process and system maintained by the National Party Treasurer's Office in Munich? Many questions, yes, and I hope that some of my fellow collectors will have something with which to respond to these questions! Or perhaps some of these questions have been raised in the past and I am unaware of the answers?

To start the ball rolling, I have an idea that perhaps Deschler & Sohn provided the original badges, both large and small, to the original order of Reichsleiter Schwarz' office, and so Deschler received all original paperwork at the time of original order. I have absolutely no documentation to back up this opinion, yet I do have many years of experience in dealing with seemingly complex office procedures and I know what a nightmare can easily develop when multiple suppliers and paperwork collide and duplicate. But let me take this one step further: I also postulate that the Fuess badges were possibly only ordered when a GPB holder ordered a second or multiple copies of the small badge. Part of my theory is based upon the chaos that would certainly be caused by selling both the large and the small GPB at the same time and delivered in the same box -- and also using two different manufacturers' products in that one box! We have all seen numerous matched GPB sets which consist of a large Deschler and a small Fuess badge, as well as matched sets of both large and small Deschler badges. How did they come to be? Of course, there is also the question of why Fuess did not also get a contract to manufacture the large GPB, for which I have absolutely no answer! But I have been thinking about these questions for a number of years and I hope there are answers out there among us somewhere!

I thank you in advance for your responses, and also for your dedication to this fascinating facet of our hobby! I look forward to you're sharing your knowledge with me and with those other members who have similar questions lurking in the backs of their minds.

Br. James

[der-hase-fee]

Welcome to the forum - still my favorite on the subject of GPB's. And thanks for the write-up. Not that I have many answers or even suggestions at hand right away, but some of the points have been on my mind for a long time as well.

I don't know about Deschler, but Josef Fuess was an early acquaintance of Hitler, who had joint the NSDAP as early as May 1st, 1920 and came up with the party badge design in August 1920. So why wouldn't he get to make all GPB's exclusively ? Maybe we'll never know, but the GPB's were issued after Hitler's raise to power and preferences may have changed by then.

Looking forward to reading more on the subject !

[Jo_Rivett]

Welcome to the forum - still my favorite on the subject of GPB's. And thanks for the write-up. Not that I have many answers or even suggestions at hand right away, but some of the points have been on my mind for a long time as well.

I don't know about Deschler, but Josef Fuess was an early acquaintance of Hitler, who had joint the NSDAP as early as May 1st, 1920 and came up with the party badge design in August 1920. So why wouldn't he get to make all GPB's exclusively ? Maybe we'll never know, but the GPB's were issued after Hitler's raise to power and preferences may have changed by then.

Looking forward to reading more on the subject !

Fueß never mentions exactly when he joined the NSDAP , but from Reading his Files, it must have been in early to mid March 1920.

The Party Badge was designed way before August 1920. Fueß applied for a Patent on the Sympathizer badge on the 9th September 1920, but the Party badge was designed by Fueß much much earlier, first without the words National Sozialistische, and then after showing a finished badge to Hitler, Hitler added the extra words on a picture he supposedly drew himself and Fueß then changed it. (The Hitler drawing has long time been thought a Old Fake, but it does not matter because we have all the original Fueß documents to back up the info anyway)

You can read about the Fueß documents in the Book, and you all know that i am not allowed to Publish more parts of them, or info here. So sorry, but if you want to know more, buy the book.

Hase-fee is correct though about we will never know... After i translated the files for the book, i have made up my own opinion on the Golden Part badge, taking all aspects of Fueßs`life and business, and relationship with the NSDAP into consideration, i very much doubt that he ever made a single GPB at all. His name appears on them for the same reason as it does on the first Blood order. What you dont know though, is that Fueß left the NSDAP (and stopped producing items for them before that) before 1935, and had nothing more to do with them. Why? we dont know.

[Erich S]

Jo is correct, Fuess designed the Blood Order but never manufactured them. I always thought being a Jeweler that he manufactured the GPB. After all, the fuess designed badge was used in the German Order.

[Jo_Rivett]

Jo is correct, Fuess designed the Blood Order but never manufactured them. I always thought being a Jeweler that he manufactured the GPB. After all, the fuess designed badge was used in the German Order.

Erich, thats Wolfe n Hardon pictures? you have to imagine what kind of Machinery you need to make a GPB, and a small jeweler like Fueß would not have this. The GPB with his name on the Attachment ONLY (never a fuess badge with incuse stamp on the badge like Descler) was made after 1935 as well, a time when he had already stopped all dealings and manufacture for the NSDAP.

Of course a debate like this is more appropriate for GPB collectors, it is just my opinion after studying the Files that He never made a single GPB in his life.

[Br. James]

Dear Erich S,

That's a sharp-eyed observation -- while I've always known that the GPB was the centerpiece of the German Order, I never realized that it was the Fuess version! Was that centerpiece a full-sized GPB or a smaller version? I've never seen a German Order cross live and in color!

Br. James

[Jo_Rivett]

Dear Erich S,

That's a sharp-eyed observation -- while I've always known that the GPB was the centerpiece of the German Order, I never realized that it was the Fuess version! Was that centerpiece a full-sized GPB or a smaller version? I've never seen a German Order cross live and in color!

Br. James

James, Fueß never "made" the Bigger GPB. I guess it has been taken for granted when spoken of the smaller badge that it was "Made" by Fueß, even though i am the wrong person to talk to about the GPB, i still dont see how Josef Fueß could ever have made any form of GPB. Documents PROOVE, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that even 10 years before the first GPB, Fueßs`business could not even cope with making any sort of Normal party Badge, and Josef Fueß therefore gave orders to Gustav Gahr to make them for him, for the simple reasons that: He was a simple Goldsmith, His premises were too small to handle any Large contracts, and his order books were full of work already from other sources, this being the main reason for him Moving to München in the first place.

[Jo_Rivett]

but Josef Fuess was an early acquaintance of Hitler, who had joint the NSDAP as early as May 1st, 1920
After looking through the Josef Fueß files again, i realize that he states exactly when he joined the NSDAP, Fueß writes:
together with my friend Burkhard we joined the Party on the 24th 02 1920.

[der-hase-fee]

After looking through the Josef Fueß files again, i realize that he states exactly when he joined the NSDAP, Fueß writes:
together with my friend Burkhard we joined the Party on the 24th 02 1920.

My information is based on Paul Bruppacher, who reports Josef and his wife joining the party May 1st, 1920 (http://www.worldwarmilitaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37476&postcount=87), not Fuess's report on the development of the NSDAP between 1920 - 1923 from the NSDAP Hauptarchiv, but that appears to be the source to use !

[Br. James]

Thanks very much, Jo. Please understand that this website is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that Josef Fuess was only the designer of the small GPB and not also the manufacturer. Are you referring to the firm of Otto and Karolina Gahr when you mention "Gustav Gahr?" Certainly Otto's firm would have had the machinery to manufacture GPBs; after all, their firm produced the SA, SS and NSKK Standards, which were certainly much more complex in metalwork and associated construction.

Also may I have an opinion on whether the centerpiece of the German Order was a genuine, full-sized Fuess-style GPB or was it smaller than the 24mm badge?

Sorry if I sound dense, but as I said origially, I am very new to this website and obviously have MUCH to catch up on! I sincerely appreciate your patience with me.

Br. James

[Erich S]

Br. James, the Fuess style badge on the German Order is smaller than the 24mm standard civilian badge.

[George Stimson]

"You can read about the Fueß documents in the Book, and you all know that i am not allowed to Publish more parts of them, or info here. So sorry, but if you want to know more, buy the book."

Maybe I'm not reading the posts carefully enough here (I'm trying to get ready to go on a trip), but what book are we talking about here? Patzwell?

[Jo_Rivett]

"You can read about the Fueß documents in the Book, and you all know that i am not allowed to Publish more parts of them, or info here. So sorry, but if you want to know more, buy the book."

Maybe I'm not reading the posts carefully enough here (I'm trying to get ready to go on a trip), but what book are we talking about here? Patzwell?

George, No, this one ► HERE (http://www.mwmilitaria.co.uk/book/advert.htm) ◄ you can order now, it has been rolling off the press since this week..
There is nothing more i would like that to openly publish the Fueß files in both German and English, Mark asked me not to though, and considering that he let me Translate them for the book, and help him with the second edition, i feel i have to respect this.
And also, it seems very much so,as if there are a few on board here who are intent on Sinking the ship, so whats the point? so others can copy and paste the info and pi-ss off without so much as a thank you ?

[George Stimson]

Thank you, Jo! That looks good!

[Br. James]

Dear Erich S -- Many thanks for your providing the fact that the GPB which forms the centerpiece of the German Order is smaller than the standard Fuess 24mm civilian version. Much appreciated.

Br. James

[Jo_Rivett]

Thanks very much, Jo. Please understand that this website is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that Josef Fuess was only the designer of the small GPB and not also the manufacturer. Are you referring to the firm of Otto and Karolina Gahr when you mention "Gustav Gahr?" Certainly Otto's firm would have had the machinery to manufacture GPBs; after all, their firm produced the SA, SS and NSKK Standards, which were certainly much more complex in metalwork and associated construction.

Also may I have an opinion on whether the centerpiece of the German Order was a genuine, full-sized Fuess-style GPB or was it smaller than the 24mm badge?

Sorry if I sound dense, but as I said originally, I am very new to this website and obviously have MUCH to catch up on! I sincerely appreciate your patience with me.

Br. James
Sorry i have Deschler on my brain .....
Yes Otto Gahr, of course. He produced lots of SS enamel too, so yes, Gahr could have, and IMHO did produce the mass wares for Fueß. (it is documented that he did in the beginning anyway) The GPB i dont see being made by anyone other than by Deschler. Why Fueßs name is only stamped on the attachment, and never incuse on a GPB like with the Deschler badges should raise enough eyebrows in that Dept.

Just my Opinion though. And i am sure GPB collectors will have their own reasons for Believing that A small Jeweler who could not cope with even making large amounts of PARTY STICKPINS in the early days could have made the GPB himself. Also why? if he left the NSDAP early on, and in his own words" I could not have anything else to do with the party as my business had suffered greatly during my time with them" This was before 1935.

Best to carry on this conversation with GPB collectors. I can only back up my own Personal theories by what Fueß wrote himself in 1935, and from knowing his more-or-less complete history from Birth until 1935. (and relationship to the NSDAP) Sometimes though, facts and history alone are enough to give you a good impression of the goings on.

There is no point for me to continue on this thread, as i said, it is just my personal opinion

[George Stimson]

"There is no point for me to continue on this thread, as i said, it is just my personal opinion"

It might be just your opinion, but it's very interesting nevertheless. Thanks for your posts!

[Br. James]

The information I've gotten from this site is already quite thought-provoking! If Josef Fuess designed the original GPB at Hitler's request in August of 1920 -- and one would suppose that Fuess' original design was that which would eventually bear his name -- then who designed the Deschler badges?

Any ideas, friends?!

Br. James

[Jo_Rivett]

The information I've gotten from this site is already quite thought-provoking! If Josef Fuess designed the original GPB at Hitler's request in August of 1920 -- and one would suppose that Fuess' original design was that which would eventually bear his name -- then who designed the Deschler badges?

Any ideas, friends?!

Br. James
Hi James. No, this is not true at all. There is never any mention at all that the GPB (small or large) was designed by Fueß. And most certainly not in August 1920. You are getting mixed up between the Normal party badge that Fueß designed, and that was before August 1920.
Who actually was asked to design the GPB is unknown to me. Maybe fueßs name is on the small one because he designed that? it could also have something to do with the fact that he actually patented the Sympathizer badge in September 1920, or applied for a patent at least. (We have no solid evidence that a Patent was ever issued, only applied for)

The whole point about the "Bear his name.." is that it doesn`t really, only on the small attachment plate. If you compare it with the Bigger GPB by Deschler, that has Deschlers name stamped on the actual badge in some cases, it certainly does leave room for speculation.

My view is, "If you designed the GPB, and were responsible for making many thousands over a period of a few years, then surely for this prestigious Honor Award, you would want some advertising for your Business. (Fueß had a small business that did not rely on NSDAP items to make a living) After all, if Deschler could mark them with his details, why could, or did Fuess not? only on the attachment ?

[Erich S]

Fuess must have still been close with the NSDAP in 1933 when they designed the Blood Order.

[Jo_Rivett]

Fuess must have still been close with the NSDAP in 1933 when they designed the Blood Order.
Well yes, i guess. No idea when Fueß designed that, he doesn`t say, all he says is that "The design came from me" Erich, it`s speculation all around with him, especially on the Blutorden, why is his name on the first lot, and then not later on? it`s the same design :001_huh:

[Br. James]

Dear friends,

This is really a stimulating conversation! Perhaps I am being overly-simplistic but it seems to me that Deschler's name is only found within a recessed block impressed directly onto the reverse of SOME large badges, perhaps most if not all of these with the military pin assembly. I cannot recall seeing a large badge with a diaper pin and pin plate bearing an impressed name block on the body of the badge; the "Deschler u Sohn, Muenchen 9" appears only on the pin plate of SOME large as well as SOME small badges. And while its true that the Fuess badge never includes the Fuess name impressed onto the badge proper, not all Fuess badges bear a pin plate with the name stamped onto it either. Both small Deschler and Fuess badges are seen with blank pin plates, just as they are sometimes seen with a vent hole and sometimes not -- though offhand I cannot recall seeing a Fuess badge with a vent hole... Perhaps the vent holes are hidden by the pin plates? Even the small Deschler badges that have had button hole studs added to them do not all carry the Deschler name, though some do. And it seems clear that there was no difference between the numbered badges and the honorary ones in terms of manufacture; both kinds were inconsistent, which probably means that they were produced in small numbers and for that reason, over years of issuance, various style inconsistencies crept into the process!

Also, does anyone know which came first -- the Deschler badges or the Fuess-marked badge? In my opinion, since Fuess-marked badges were only made in the civilian size, it seems logical that the Deschler versions were the first created...?

Thank each of you for a fascinating and thought-provoking website!

Br. James

[Jo_Rivett]

James. concerning the Deschler GPBs. Who knows... i have always found what you mention strange as well. Considering that Deschler marked everything else he made properly, whether it be a small party badge or a SS honor Pin. (Either with full name or Triangle D u. S schutzmarke)
A conversation/discussion well worth perusing with those in the know.
And when we look at another "Honor Badges or Awards" they too are maker marked in the same fashion as that particular maker marked his other items.

[StephenL]

It is interesting that Fuess applied for and was granted RZM licenses for badges (M1/95) and day badges / tinnies (M9/77). These would have been in the first batches of numbers granted in 1935, but indicates that Fuess had the intention of manufacturing.

By the way, the centrepiece "Fuess-style" GPB of the German Order measures 21.5 mm instead of the 24.5 mm of a standard one, and produced by W. Deumer.

[Br. James]

Dear Stephen,

Many, many thanks for that tidbit, which immediately raises the question: Could Wilhelm Deumer's firm have been the actual manufacturer of the small GPBs marked with Josef Fuess' name? I did not know that Deumer was the maker of the German Order -- was he the only maker? While there is much more to the German Order award than just the centerpiece, I assume that the mini-GPB therein was produced separately and fused to the larger metal blank? (I've never actually seen a German Order other than in pictures...sorry for my ignorance.) If Deumer was the only manufacturer of the German Order, and we know that his firm was robust enough to create a number of complex badges and works in metal and enamel, then it stands to reason that he may have also been the manufacturer of the small GPB bearing Fuess' name -- after all, there surely weren't large numbers of German Orders created, and if Deumer could manage that, then he could probably have also managed to satisfy the orders for GPBs coming out of Franz Schwarz' office!

This subject always seems to fascinate, doesn't it?! I'm so grateful that a friend of mine steered me into this chat space! I look forward to reading the wisdom on this subject that I'm sure is out there.

Br. James

[der-hase-fee]

By the way, the centrepiece "Fuess-style" GPB of the German Order measures 21.5 mm instead of the 24.5 mm of a standard one, and produced by W. Deumer.

I thought I'd add a picture for illustration purposes. "Fuess style" obviously refers to the wreath.

[StephenL]

I hate to even open this can of worms, because I am less than sure of its origins and authenticity, so I'll just say there is a story that a silver version of the Gold Party Badge was planned, and the prototype was supposedly made by Deumer as part of the set shown on page one of this thread (The Wolf Hardin sample board with the German Order and Party Badges). They were both large and small Deschler style badges (not a Fuess version), and the backs were stamped "M1/120.

I have always been skeptical of the legend, even though I have seen photos of the "silver" badges. However, the so-called "Silver GPB" was not the Fuess style.

More grounded in reality, the German Order GPB centre differs from the standard Fuess badge in more than just size - the lettering in the red field is also different.

[der-hase-fee]

I hate to even open this can of worms, because I am less than sure of its origins and authenticity, so I'll just say there is a story that a silver version of the Gold Party Badge was planned, and the prototype was supposedly made by Deumer as part of the set shown on page one of this thread (The Wolf Hardin sample board with the German Order and Party Badges). They were both large and small Deschler style badges (not a Fuess version), and the backs were stamped "M1/120.

I have always been skeptical of the legend, even though I have seen photos of the "silver" badges. However, the so-called "Silver GPB" was not the Fuess style.

More grounded in reality, the German Order GPB centre differs from the standard Fuess badge in more than just size - the lettering in the red field is also different.

This topic came up after the last MAX show: http://www.worldwarmilitaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38122#post38122

I hope you have located those emails you exchanged with Chris Ailsby on the subject of SPB (Silver Party Badge :w00t:) and are ready to share.

Great that something's going again on the WWM ! :thumbup:

[der-hase-fee]

The badge is the large one and is marked M1/120. Too bad Paul never posted the reverse ! :huh:

Picture came from here: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2911669&postcount=41

[StephenL]

That's the one, and here is the reverse.

Note the RZM logo seems to be stamped in instead of raised with the odd "M" that has the middle "V" stroke too long.

Also an odd pin attachment and recess plate.

Why it would be RZM'd is beyond me, as the GPB wasn't under the RZM.

[der-hase-fee]

I thought I'd add a picture for illustration purposes. "Fuess style" obviously refers to the wreath.

Found a close up.

[StephenL]

I hope you have located those emails you exchanged with Chris Ailsby on the subject of SPB (Silver Party Badge :w00t:) and are ready to share.

Great that something's going again on the WWM ! :thumbup:

I found a text snippet that I saved from one of my threads with Ailsby (as "Warlord") in 2005. Here is part of what he had to say:

"The organisation of the Golden Party badge and others, went SILVER party Badge, Golden Party badge, Goldenes Ehrenzeichen auf dem Runenstern, German Order 3rd class, German Order 2nd class, German Order of the highest grade.

“War Lord, one additional question, I am afraid that I am unacquainted with your term, 'Runesturn' or a quick Bable Fish interpretation of 'Run Turn'” To answer this this is the Goldenes Ehrenzeichen auf dem Runenstern, or properly translated, Golden Party Badge on the Rune Star.

...

THIS QUESTION AGAIN CAN BE EXPLAINED AS SUCH, “Again, another statement that has left me a but perplexed is the following, "if Deumer produced a special presentation box of the Part awards, would it be possible they had badges from another company those would have to be stamped" Huh?”

Deumer produced a special presentation box of the awards in the series, this included on the upper portion, the large and small Golden Party badges, with at the centre a normal membership badge, this was flanked by the large and small Silver Party badges. Beneath in a line were presented, the German Order 1st class, beneath 2nd class and finally the 3rd class. As they did not produce the Golden Party badge they obtained the badges and gilded and silvered the badges as required. An assumption was that they would mark the badges with their mark when attached to the presentation box. ..."

I must say that I found Chris's writing style hard to follow, especially for an author.

The bottom line is he suggests that these badges were not made by Deumer, but made by Deschler and silver=plated and remarked by Deumer - something I find hard to believe as they appear to be a different die.

He also suggests that there was a "star" to the GPB planned, like a breast star with the GPB in the centre, along with 3 grades of the German Order and the silver / gold GPBs.

I did and still consider this all fantasy, and the "Deumer" board most likely post-war created, perhaps by Kleitmann, with the exotic silver badges. Prof. Kleitmann has been thought to have eventually gone from expert to shill of repro badges, "discovering" and authenticating high-end repros very early on.

[der-hase-fee]

I must say that I found Chris's writing style hard to follow, especially for an author.

Yes, agree. Pretty much like Klietmann perhaps, once they built their reputation, they would not step town from their imaginary throne and listen to reasonable argument, eventually starting to venture into questionable dealings. :crying:

[der-hase-fee]

He also suggests that there was a "star" to the GPB planned, like a breast star with the GPB in the centre, along with 3 grades of the German Order and the silver / gold GPBs.

Here is a picture. Said to be among the donations Deumer made to the History Museum of his home town of Lüdenscheid.

[der-hase-fee]

Here is a picture. Said to be among the donations Deumer made to the History Museum of his home town of Lüdenscheid.

Here is a link to an online exhibition of the museum (hidden treasures): http://www.verborgeneschaetze.de/

First, click on the yellow "weiter" at the lower right, then "Orden" at the middle left, then a couple times the bold yellow "weiter ..." at the bottom of the text.

Would love to see these close up.

[Br. James]

The "Z" in the RZM mark is also lacking the central crossover which used to indicate that a piece was a fraud...?

I had not thought of a GPB in silver for decades and have never seen one until now. For those who have that ancient and revered reference work, "Orders, Decorations, Medals and Badges of the Third Reich" by David Littlejohn and C.M. Dodkins published in 1968 (one of the very first books on our subject that I bought as a fairly new collector), if you turn to page 67 you'll find a "Silver Party Badge" with a facsimile of Hitler's signature on a gold-plated reverse along with a questionable (for the period) pin device. According to the text this badge was intended to be a personal gift from Hitler to very important people, but it apparently never went forward in execution. Anyone have any thoughts on that piece?

Br. James

[George Stimson]

Here's the passage in Littlejohn and Dodkins referenced by Br.

[StephenL]

The "Z" in the RZM mark is also lacking the central crossover which used to indicate that a piece was a fraud...?

.... if you turn to page 67 you'll find a "Silver Party Badge" with a facsimile of Hitler's signature on a gold-plated reverse along with a questionable (for the period) pin device. According to the text this badge was intended to be a personal gift from Hitler to very important people, but it apparently never went forward in execution. Anyone have any thoughts on that piece?

Br. James

The lack of a cross-stroke to the "Z" in the RZM logo is perfectly acceptable. This myth got started by Robin Lumsden in his "Detecting the Fakes" book. I've had private and forum discussions with Robin and he acknowledges this was a mistake on his part, but still haunts the collecting world. Legitimate RZM logos came in four standard styles - with and without the Z cross, with single and double outer circles.

As for the silver badge, two allegedly were presented (Horthy & Quisling), but if so they were one-offs and everything else you see is a fake. A batch of these were made in the 1960s or '70s with red leather case in England by someone named Barry Smith of Horage, Lancs., and that's what you see in circulation. Either that or simple "sympathizer" pins tarted up with a bad Hitler signature.

I have seen photos of the "GBP Star" and think it looks pretty theatrical and garish for even a test piece.

[Wim Vangossum]

Stephen, the picture like you shared with the boxed Gold and silver party pins and the orders is also visible on the Wolfe and Hardin Website. So they have this for sale for a rich collector?

Regards, Wim :)

[StephenL]

Apparently so. Probably out of my price range. :D

[Br. James]

Thanks for updating my education on RZM logos, Stephen -- very helpful! I knew that the single and double surrounds were both kosher but had never heard that the uncrossed Z was also legit.

Br. James

[Br. James]

Dear Wim,

Could you please share Wolfe & Hardin's website address? While I've spoken with Steve Wolfe and also purchased a large GPB from him some years ago, I can't seem to locate their website. Many thanks in advance,

Br. James

[der-hase-fee]

Dear Wim,

Could you please share Wolfe & Hardin's website address? While I've spoken with Steve Wolfe and also purchased a large GPB from him some years ago, I can't seem to locate their website. Many thanks in advance,

Br. James

Far from a catalog, some pages appear to not have been changed in years:

http://www.wolfehardin.com/

[Br. James]

Many thanks...friend...I'm not sure how to refer to your name?!

Br. James

[Erich S]

The set that W&H have originally came into a gun shop many years ago from a Vet. I think Bob Hritz knows the whole story.

[Wim Vangossum]

They don't show much on that site, I know. I just mentioned it as a reference because those guy's are know as having the best of the best and the rarest of the rarest. I guess, just like Burmeister, they don't sell on the net.
There "shop" seems to be some kind of Alladin's cave for the happy few in this hobby. So I assume that they do there homework and only offer things that are more than 99% original?

Regards, Wim :)

[Br. James]

I agree, Wim, and they also don't give any details or even prices. The site itself is beautiful, but there's much more at stake than just superficial beauty! It seems like the purpose of their site is simply to attract calls and email notes pursuing specific items.

Br. James

[Erich S]

Most if not all business is done by phone.

[George Stimson]

If you can arrange a visit to Steve Wolfe's home it is well worth it. I've been there several times, and he has quite a few GPBs, some of which have great historical value. (Docs too.)

[Wim Vangossum]

Have you been in Alladin's cave, George? Lucky you! I think only a handfull of my homeland Belgium collectors made the trip. They also visted men like Bill Shea. I think every visit to those guys at home is breathtaking. I know the ones who visit them and saw some of the treasures they brought back. :001_wub: That's as far as it's go for me. :laugh:

Regards, Wim :)

[Br. James]

Anyone visiting Tom Wittmann's website has the opportunity of visiting his collecting room at his home, at least electronically, and what a treat it is! One day I'd like to visit it 'in the flesh!'

For those 'old-timers' like me, you may remember collector and dealer Bill Rasmussen, who I believe has now gone to that big collecting room in the sky! I happened across his shop and museum in Royal Oak, Michigan back in about 1972 as I was driving by to visit friends...I hit the brakes and walked over, and spent the next two days with Bill and his wife. It was certainly the largest collection of Third Reich memorabilia I have ever seen in my life! The shop was staffed by Bill's wife and he spent most of his time giving tours to school and social groups who made the pilgrimage to see his life's work. Bill spent most of those two days showing me his collection of original Hitler watercolors and spectacular artifacts the like of which I have never again seen. But I think I caught the GPB bug when I first saw his collection -- he had a large Alte Kampfer banner, about 4x6 feet if memory serves, displayed on a wall and mounted thereon was his collection of GPBs pinned all over the red cloth. There must have been a hundred or more. It was the single most unforgettable thing in his huge museum -- a museum that included original uniforms from many NSDAP luminaries, countless swords and daggers, paper of all kinds, memorabilia from the Graf Zeppelin and the Hindenburg, the Berghof, the Neue Reichschancellery, military weapons of all kinds, complete Traditions uniforms of the SS, SA, and full field gear setups from the Wehrmacht...my memory fails to recall it all! But I think you can grasp the impression it left with a young collector like me, though by then I had already been collecting and studying the genre for about 14 years.

Bill Rasmussen was at that time a retired police officer and he confided that he and his wife had spent many years traveling through Europe and buying everything in sight...and there was a LOT in sight back then! He first rented the apartment next to his own and filled it with his collection, and finally rented a storefront on the main street of Royal Oak and opened his shop and museum. I kept in touch with Bill for the next few years and finally lost contact with him, to my regret. He was as friendly as anyone I've ever met in this hobby and he loved to be asked questions about any form of German militaria. I remember that Albert Speer's major memoir, "Inside the Third Reich," had recently been released and I asked Bill how I might get in touch with Speer. Of course Bill had Speer's personal address in Heidelberg and he shared it with me; I wrote to Speer immediately and received a kindly response from him -- this is the only example I have in my collections of an autographed letter addressed directly to me from one of the highest-ranking Nuremberg defendants and I value it today as much as I did then.

Sorry to go on so long, but obviously a place in my memory was touched that I have never forgotten.

Br. James

[Erich S]

I picked some of my first pieces from Bill and I remember his shop well. I only lived one town over which was a real treat!

[der-hase-fee]

But I think I caught the GPB bug when I first saw his collection -- he had a large Alte Kampfer banner, about 4x6 feet if memory serves, displayed on a wall and mounted thereon was his collection of GPBs pinned all over the red cloth. There must have been a hundred or more. It was the single most unforgettable thing in his huge museum
Br. James

Wonder what happened to them ? The largest collection I am aware of these days is John Pepera's with 154 (at least a few weeks ago).

[Br. James]

Dear Andreas,

I had heard that Bill Rasmussen's collections were sold off as his health declined years ago. I know John Pepera and I assume he holds the largest collection of GPBs nowadays -- there may be some of Bill's pieces among John's holdings...and hopefully among many other collectors', as well. Perhaps even mine, though I never bought any from him when he was still active. The only piece I have from Bill is a Heer sword, and I managed to carry that back home with me on an airliner in the early 1970s -- imagine trying to do that today!

Br. James

[der-hase-fee]

Dear Andreas,

I had heard that Bill Rasmussen's collections were sold off as his health declined years ago. I know John Pepera and I assume he holds the largest collection of GPBs nowadays -- there may be some of Bill's pieces among John's holdings...and hopefully among many other collectors', as well. Perhaps even mine, though I never bought any from him when he was still active. The only piece I have from Bill is a Heer sword, and I managed to carry that back home with me on an airliner in the early 1970s -- imagine trying to do that today!

Br. James

Hello James,
I sure hope you are going to share pictures of your treasures ! ;)

[Br. James]

Hi Andreas,

I'm very sorry to say that I have never learned how to take electronic photos of my pieces, so I'm afraid that is not possible. But since I have long known that, for me, it would be financially impossible to try and amass a large collection of GPBs, I have been satisfied to hold only four representative badges in my collection: a large diaper pin-back, a large military pin-back, a small Deschler and a Fuess. Of these four, the only one attributed is the large military pin-back; the other three remain as yet unidentified. I have entered these three numbers on the list on this site but with no response as yet from any of the members. Obviously I am very patient...! But I have also been working on a list of attributed numbers and have managed to identify more than 5,700 entries.

Br. James

[Erich S]

Hi Andreas,

I'm very sorry to say that I have never learned how to take electronic photos of my pieces, so I'm afraid that is not possible. But since I have long known that, for me, it would be financially impossible to try and amass a large collection of GPBs, I have been satisfied to hold only four representative badges in my collection: a large diaper pin-back, a large military pin-back, a small Deschler and a Fuess. Of these four, the only one attributed is the large military pin-back; the other three remain as yet unidentified. I have entered these three numbers on the list on this site but with no response as yet from any of the members. Obviously I am very patient...! But I have also been working on a list of attributed numbers and have managed to identify more than 5,700 entries.

Br. James
It sounds like you already have a nice collection of GPB's!:thumbup:

[George Stimson]

" I have been satisfied to hold only four representative badges in my collection: a large diaper pin-back, a large military pin-back, a small Deschler and a Fuess."

It sounds like you and I have the same collection!

[Br. James]

Thanks George -- and I hope we don't, if you get my drift! I have always envied John Pepera's mighty collection but have found it realistic in my situation to stay with the four beautiful examples I have held now for many years...still praying to identify the three missing numbers!

James

[Erich S]

I was lucky enough to obtain SS Standartenfuhrer Max Sollmann's GPB who was the Chief of Lebensborn and Blood Order winner, which came indirectly out of the woodwork. There still out there!

[Br. James]

I certainly agree that "they're still out there" -- and big-time! Now, with the children and grandchildren of prominent Nazis inheriting family property which the kids have no interest in or commitment to, all they see is dollar signs (or euro or pound or...) and we're already witnessing the beginning of a fantastic new era in Third Reich collecting! The problem today is that when these kids see what kind of money is out there just waiting for a chance to buy what they've got to sell, the prices are becoming phenomenal! But that's the world we live in...

Br. James