Rare knifes/edged weapons

[Steve R]

Hello

Thought I would show you an item I picked up recently. This is one of three 'Commando knifes' that I picked up at the same time but not all are WW11 pattern like this one. I have never own one before so feel free to contribute any of your own pics or info.

:thumbup1:

Steve R

[MikeF]

Steve, that looks like a William Rodgers (Sheffield) made "beads and ridges" (also known as "Beaded and Ridged") model FS knife, I believe Rodgers started making these in 1942. If it is a Rodgers then you have a rare beast.

Are there any markings on the lower part of the grip just above the cross guard?

Mike

[MikeF]

Are there any markings on the lower part of the grip just above the cross guard?

Mike

Steve, to clarify - I can see there are markings, one being the remains of a crows foot, but I cannot make out what the other is, any ideas?

Mike

[Time Bandit]

I have only one FS knife and that is a modern repro I got about 20 years ago as there is no way I could afford to splash out on a genuine wartime example, to expensive for me...:sad: Out of interest, when I bought it it was claimed that it was made by one of the 'proper' Sheffield makers who made original ones? I must admit to being a tad sceptical about that but I guess you never know? The only markings on it are 'Sheffield' & 'England'
I also have a William Rodgers stiletto which I bought from an ex RM/SBS vet, he reckoned to of carried it instead of a FS knife...but as they say buy the item not the story and so I did as I quite liked the knife anyhow, regardless of whether it had been carried in battle by a member of the SBS or been bought by him at a car boot sale after he demobbed....
Finally I have a stiletto type blade and I've not a clue as to what it's from? It came from my old mans workshop with some tacky home made handle on it and it seemed to of been lying around in there for years along with a German WW1 bayonet that looked like it had been made into a fighting knife. The blade is about the right size and shape for an FS blade, just slightly narrower towards the tip and ever so slightly shorter, possibly thru' sharpening? It has no markings at all to help with any ID so I guess it will remain a mystery?

Some pics below...and some more of my other knives on my website here... (http://www.militaryrover.ismysite.co.uk/bayo0001e.html)

[Time Bandit]

A quick question about FS knives for those who might know.

Are the current ones you see up for sale made by J Nowill & Sons and which are broad arrow marked and with the cross key insignia etc genuine MOD issue knives or are they just repro things?

[MikeF]

A quick question about FS knives for those who might know.

Are the current ones you see up for sale made by J Nowill & Sons and which are broad arrow marked and with the cross key insignia etc genuine MOD issue knives or are they just repro things?

I'm fairly sure MOD issue knives still carry the crows foot mark on them (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), thus if they do not have this then they are not direct MOD supplied or surplus.

Mike

[Steve R]

Mike

I can't see any other markings. The mark by the crowfoot I though was like part of a number five but on closer inspection looks more like a chip in the brass. Still anice knife although it has been sharpened and some time, it is as sharp as a razor blade down the whole lengh.

Steve R

:thumbup1:

[Steve R]

Hello

This is another Knife that came from the same source as the one I started this thread with. A very unusual handle as you can see. This is nice as the blade appears never to have been shapened since issue although it is a little stained.

What you think guys

:thumbup:

Steve R

[Time Bandit]

I'm fairly sure MOD issue knives still carry the crows foot mark on them (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), thus if they do not have this then they are not direct MOD supplied or surplus.

Mike

Cheers for that.

The reason I was asking was that whilst I'm not really in the market to be buying a wartime FS due to the price I thought that maybe a genuine but modern ex MOD example might be a better alternative to my 'fake' one and being modern it wouldn't quite command some of the prices seen on WW2 examples?
So, with this in mind I've recently been having a gander about at FS knives and in among the usual wartime ones I came across quite a few made by J Nowill & Sons Sheffield and with a broad arrow marking and the likes. I dunno why but it just made me a bit suspicious that there seemed to be a lot out there at once (maybe it was just that time that a few had come onto the market??) and I wondered if these were fakes with MOD markings etc stamped into them rather than the real thing?

Here's a couple of pics of one I found on some website somewhere...real deal or 'iffy'?? Oh, yeah, I just 'borrowed' these pics so if it's a bit dodgy please feel free to remove them moderator.

[MikeF]

Cheers for that.

The reason I was asking was that whilst I'm not really in the market to be buying a wartime FS due to the price I thought that maybe a genuine but modern ex MOD example might be a better alternative to my 'fake' one and being modern it wouldn't quite command some of the prices seen on WW2 examples?
So, with this in mind I've recently been having a gander about at FS knives and in among the usual wartime ones I came across quite a few made by J Nowill & Sons Sheffield and with a broad arrow marking and the likes. I dunno why but it just made me a bit suspicious that there seemed to be a lot out there at once (maybe it was just that time that a few had come onto the market??) and I wondered if these were fakes with MOD markings etc stamped into them rather than the real thing?

Here's a couple of pics of one I found on some website somewhere...real deal or 'iffy'?? Oh, yeah, I just 'borrowed' these pics so if it's a bit dodgy please feel free to remove them moderator.

Mike - I don't believe these are fakes, Nowill are well known blade maufacturers and they have been MOD suppliers (they probably still are). John Nowill & Son still produce FS knives, the company is now owned by J. Adams Ltd, Sheffield.

All FS knives produced by J. Adams Ltd are 3rd pattern. With regard to the markings:

- 'H' inside a rectangle is the trademark for F.E & J.R.Hopkinson Ltd, established 14 June 1944, which was incorparated by J. Adams Ltd.

- The trade mark "Crossed Keys" is for John Nowill & Son and was aquired in 1842.


As a point of interest - 3rd pattern WW2 FS knives are not too hard to come by and sometimes are not expensive; I found one at a flea market/collectors fair about 4 years ago for £30, yes it had a little bit of damage but nothing significant.

Mike

[MikeF]

Hello

This is another Knife that came from the same source as the one I started this thread with. A very unusual handle as you can see. This is nice as the blade appears never to have been shapened since issue although it is a little stained.

What you think guys

:thumbup:

Steve R

Steve, nice looking stag horn grip. Can you post a picture of the top of the grip showing how the tang is fastened to the grip?

Mike

[Time Bandit]

Mike - I don't believe these are fakes, Nowill are well known blade maufacturers and they have been MOD suppliers (they probably still are). John Nowill & Son still produce FS knives, the company is now owned by J. Adams Ltd, Sheffield.

All FS knives produced by J. Adams Ltd are 3rd pattern. With regard to the markings:

- 'H' inside a rectangle is the trademark for F.E & J.R.Hopkinson Ltd, established 14 June 1944, which was incorparated by J. Adams Ltd.

- The trade mark "Crossed Keys" is for John Nowill & Son and was aquired in 1842.


As a point of interest - 3rd pattern WW2 FS knives are not too hard to come by and sometimes are not expensive; I found one at a flea market/collectors fair about 4 years ago for £30, yes it had a little bit of damage but nothing significant.

Mike

Thanks for the info Mike.

I've been doing a bit more searching around and from what I've found it seems the current batch of J Nowill FS knives are not genuine MOD issue ones? They may well of produced them in the past (I think they did wartime ones possibly and maybe later ones too?) but the current ones are copies it seems? They are made by 'Sheffield Knives' which are the umbrella name for J Adams, J Nowill and a couple of other makers nowadays (though the items carry the appropriate name for the item, J Nowill & Sons etc on the FS) and the Nowill FS can still be got, brand new for about £30 or thereabouts direct from them. The ones I'd seen on the web on surplus dealers websites were around about the £60 mark. They are stamped with the MOD arrow it would appear but they are not, as far as I can make out, genuine issued knives?? They also do the MOD survival knife and the MOD jack knife but these are under the J Adams name and these are genuine issue items, with the NSN stock number and the likes, these can also be bought direct from them.

It would be nice to be able to get a wartime FS for £30 like you did but I'm never that lucky, plus I'm not sure I'd know enough about them to spot a genuine wartime one as opposed to a copy anyhow?

[Steve R]

MikeF

I will do, I am away from my collection this weekend but will try and put one on Monday.

Steve R

[Steve R]

MikeF

As promised two pics of the top of the knife to see how it is attached. Hope this shows what you was after.

Steve R

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