boards and tabs

[Niblet]

Fellas,,I know not too much about these types of items,,
do you think these are legitimate examples?

[StuG]

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm also not liking them.:001_unsure:
Tom

[Oracle]

They look to be very good reproductions to me

[Niblet]

What makes you guys say this? can you clarify please?

[Oracle]

Slight inconsistency to the wreathing design, and the backing material doesn't look quite right. Overall "near mint" condition of the tabs is a bit suspicious, IMO.

The boards might be real, but the fact that they are grouped with these tabs would make me wary of purchasing them. Remember, this is just my opinion, and all of us had to learn this stuff through hard wrought experience.

Good luck !

:001_unsure:

Ron

[Jo_Rivett]

Tim, the Tabs are Fake. As Nemo would say.... Listen to the oracle....
► SEE THE DIFFERENCES IN DESIGN (http://www.johncasino.com/Luftwaffe%20Flight%20Paratroops%20Officers%20Colla r%20Tabs%2010876.htm)◄

[Niblet]

Jo and Oracle,,
I see,,yes quite a bit difference there! Thanks so much for the help! here is the "story":

a collector writes to a RK winner and the RK winner sends him some items,,
they write each other back and forth for awhile the RK winner sends
him a framed painting of his airplane,,some signed pics,,even a small model of his airplane and these boaards and tabs.

Collector has all envelopes and correspondence with the RK winner,,
to back this up. Now,,,if the boards and tabs ARE the exact ones the RK winner sent the collector,,,what do you think happened here?

Did the RK winner sent some late war unissued insignia or some repros?

this took place back in the late seventies,,,, thanks gents,, let me know your thoughts on this,,

[Jo_Rivett]

Jo and Oracle,,
I see,,yes quite a bit difference there! Thanks so much for the help! here is the "story":

a collector writes to a RK winner and the RK winner sends him some items,,
they write each other back and forth for awhile the RK winner sends
him a framed painting of his airplane,,some signed pics,,even a small model of his airplane and these boaards and tabs.

Collector has all envelopes and correspondence with the RK winner,,
to back this up. Now,,,if the boards and tabs ARE the exact ones the RK winner sent the collector,,,what do you think happened here?

Did the RK winner sent some late war unissued insignia or some repros?

this took place back in the late seventies,,,, thanks gents,, let me know your thoughts on this,,
Tim, my thoughts ? is that this story is complete cr4p. Every surviving RK winner would have had hundreds of letters from Europeans and Americans asking for his Signature over the years, this is not something that started with the introduction of the internet. I had a Photo album once of a guy who had collected signatures from everyone, starting around 1938..going through to the 1970`s..... in total some 400 signatures..

The Tabs are instantly recognizable as Brand spankers out of the Factory. Reddick.com will sell you the same for $10.-

RK winner sent him some items ? Original tabs and shoulder boards? well if he did (which i dont believe for one moment) the guy switched em for these boring run-o-the-mill Reproductions. Or was sent these last week, and is naive enough to believe that they are real. The Tabs are Repros Tim, along with the Boards.

Maybe they did build up a Pen-pal romance, and the RK winner took pity on him and sent him these, fresh from the flea market for DM2,99.- ?

[Bob Wirtz]

Learning Moment: NEVER believe the story unless the artifacts are genuine. Anybody can make up a story, but produce the original artifacts first. If the artifacts are good, then the story is icing on the cake. Otherwise, the story is FICTION (that's another term for BS).

Bob

[Rob Johnson]

Learning Moment: NEVER believe the story unless the artifacts are genuine. Anybody can make up a story, but produce the original artifacts first. If the artifacts are good, then the story is icing on the cake. Otherwise, the story is FICTION (that's another term for BS).

Bob

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Buy the item(s) - not the story. The items need to stand on their own, regardless of who's selling them, where - or from whom - they reportedly came, etc.

Rob

[Oracle]

Slight inconsistency to the wreathing design, and the backing material doesn't look quite right. Overall "near mint" condition of the tabs is a bit suspicious, IMO.

The boards might be real, but the fact that they are grouped with these tabs would make me wary of purchasing them. Remember, this is just my opinion, and all of us had to learn this stuff through hard wrought experience.

Good luck !

:001_unsure:

Ron

Alright, I was trying to give my opinion in a "soft" manner. I am still too new on this board to give an opinion which some might consider abrasive, which is why I prefaced it with the "I'm no expert" disclaimer.

Also, I had answered a previous posting of yours, in regards to the Panzer boards you displayed. The truth is, I do have considerable experience with tabs and boards, so perhaps I should just "man up" and say so.

I chose the name "Oracle" on many boards, particularly in guitars. To date, this is the only WW II militaria board I participate on, but I use this name on many news boards as well. I do this in order to have an easily identifiable pen name, and to offer as much transparency as I can, despite the relative anonimity of the internet.

When you use a name like this, you better be able to "Back up your BS". Since I am new here, I really don't want to offend anyone. If I ever list anything for sale, I hereby promise that I will not pull any of that "disclaimer" stuff. :D

And finally, I will say that nobody really wants to be told "flat out" that their item is fake. Also, even a self-proclaimed "expert" doesn't really know for sure unless he is holding the item in hand. (Whoops, this is starting to sound like another disclaimer) :rolleyes:

In future, I will just tell it like it is. Nobody likes a "know it all", but many actually appreciate an honest opinion. If I don't know, I don't answer. If I believe I do know, I will just say so. I don't claim to know everything, but I definitely aspire to learn as much as I can.

Good luck to all...

:wink:

Ron

::::::::::::::::

"A reputation takes a liketime to earn, but only a moment to burn"

[Niblet]

Ron and all who have helped me here,
PLEASE dont EVER hesitate to call it like it is when I post a comment or an item,,!!!!!!!!!!

I cant stress this enough!!!! I want the truth even if it hurts!! I will not try to ask an opinion and then argue with you! I have been told my panzer tabs are fakes,,,thats fine,,I'm sure they are.

These boards and tabs looked "goofy" to me,,thats why I posted them,,they are coming in a grouping I bought,,but will in all likelyhood be going back to the seller,,,,I bought this grouping because of some other things in the grouping and quite frankly dont care if these are real or not,,but the grouping was priced at everything being real IMHO,,,so if i cant reach an agreement it will be going back,,,,at any rate thank you very much fellas for helping me,,

and Oracle,,,please post more!:biggrin: welcome to the forum!

[Jo_Rivett]

Tim, out of curiosity now, are you also going to be getting all the papers/letters/proof that you mentioned ? the Provenance ? with the items? or does the seller wish to keep them so he/she can Spin the same story later again if need be?

[Oracle]

When you posted the Panzer tabs, you had mentioned the price paid and I was shocked that you may have been duped out of such a sum. I soft sold my answer, because I didn't want to rub salt into such a wound.

From now on, for yours as well as all other posts, I will only attempt to be as helpful as I can, feelings be hanged.

Although I read every post on this board, I only post answers within the subjects that I am the strongest. I am learning as much as I am able, and I find some of the posters here to be true experts in their respective field.

This board is turning out to be better than I could have hoped for, and together through helping each other, we can all become better educated in this fascinating hobby.

Let's get ready to rumble !!!

:thumbup:

Ron

[Niblet]

Ron,
yes those panzer tabs were a losing deal for me,,but hey,,the skulls are real,
so I got some expensive skulls,,,I was someones "fresh fish" not too long ago,,
hopefully those days are behind me,,thanks for the help!:thumbup:

[Jo_Rivett]

Tim, every collector, and Dealer will have something that he paid way too much for, that`s just the way it go`s. The way you balance it out, is to pick up a few Bargains, and then, in the end it all evens out. Thats just the hobby, and anyone who tells you otherwise needs a spanking.

[Niblet]

Jo I have only done the "bargain" thing one time,,I picked up a grouping for 200.00 and sold a hitler plaque and some other smalls and still had a nice pennant and a mint "Der Kamp in Westen" 3d photo book and some nice studio photos left over!!

sadly that doesnt even scratch the surface of my fresh fish days,,,but hopefully in the long run I can even things out a bit,,

[Jo_Rivett]

Jo I have only done the "bargain" thing one time,,I picked up a grouping for 200.00 and sold a hitler plaque and some other smalls and still had a nice pennant and a mint "Der Kamp in Westen" 3d photo book and some nice studio photos left over!!

sadly that doesnt even scratch the surface of my fresh fish days,,,but hopefully in the long run I can even things out a bit,,

You will have to, especially if you keep on shopping with me :scared:.....:D

[Oracle]

Hello Tim,

Thanks for the kind words, and please know that I always intend to be helpful.

Here's the problem/paradox...

For those of us who started buying 30 or so years ago, we were buying stuff so cheap (relative to current pricing) that natural appreciation offsets the value of the hobby to the point that we almost can't lose...even a few bad purchases "now" cannot defeat the overall value of a lifelong collection, and a few sales now and then easily raises funds to acquire nice pieces here and there. This is when the hobby begins to "pay for itself", and offers the point of true joy to take root. But here is the interesting thing...although todays' prices "seem" high, in twenty years, the things we buy today will definitely seem like a bargain to the next generation of collectors.
;) Can't lose, baby !

For newbies, you are "buying high", so every purchase becomes critical...by this I mean, one mistake can defeat the value of your overall collection exponentially.

Example :

I started buying RKs and EKs in the 70s, way before they commanded these current prices...If I were to sell one or two RKs, in essence it might offset the cost basis of my entire RK collection in its entirety. Conversely, if I were just starting now, and unfortunately if my first purchase were fake, I might have to buy a dozen or so just to even out the loss over time.

I think you see the problem here, as it's a losing proposition. This is why, when building a new collection, you should stick to buying only from respected dealers who have earned a stellar reputation, just to insure that it really "is what they say it is".

Sure, we all get busted now and then, in our attempts to buy something from an unknown source at a price that seems like a bargain. But that's exactly how we fall prey to the scammers out there, because a seasoned scammer knows exactly how to price something "just below" it's percieved value, while still pricing it "just high enough" to not set off our natural alarms. Take this, and add it to the fact that we are collecting something that has become a rich mans' hobby, and divide by the fact that many percieve TR pieces as "politically incorrect"...it equals a recipe for disaster, and puts us at their mercy. Knowledge is the great equalizer, so learn as much as you can for the rest of your life.

(Call your Congressman, and start the conversation with "I bought Hitlers' moustache comb and I think I got ripped off"...hold your breath, and wait for a reply):tongue_smilie:

Sorry for being so long winded, and for speaking mainly in financial terms. But this hobby unfortunately now involves considerable amounts of money, and I happen to earn mine in the financial field. (Stock Market). To some, I am a true Oracle, but to others, I sound like a pompous retard. I guess the jury is still out on this, but I do consistently beat the market, both in my investments AND in my collections.

I look at my collections AS investments, but at least I get to play with them while they appreciate. Stock certificates aren't much fun to play with (paper airplanes, maybe), but I can always dress as General Rommel for Halloween with my prime pieces.

It's all a matter of perspective...poor people are crazy, while rich people are simply eccentric. I was dressed as a Nazi at the Halloween party, but I was wearing 20k in medals while I did it. Surprisngly enough, people were still asking me for stock tips...

Go figure ?

:biggrin:

Good luck to all...

Ron

..........

[Oracle]

Tim, every collector, and Dealer will have something that he paid way too much for, that`s just the way it go`s. The way you balance it out, is to pick up a few Bargains, and then, in the end it all evens out. Thats just the hobby, and anyone who tells you otherwise needs a spanking.

In financial terms, this is called "dollar cost averaging"

A bad investment is never really a loss, until you sell it...

You can always average out of it, as long as you have the patience to do it. I suppose the key is to have enough cash to weather the storm.

:D

Ron