HJ Ski Führer

[sroub]

Hello gent, I need some opinion about this rare badge.

Thanks and bests, sroub.

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi,

I hope some HJ expert on this one jumps in. I only know the are extremely rare and intensive faked. I would love to hear opinions on this one.

Regards, Wim :)

[Frank Booth]

I had one years back that I am sure was legit, I sold it to a prominant collector in Maryland. It was damaged, but looked a lot different than this one shown. The center piece was almost copper colored. The diamond looked different too. I have photos somewhere, but they are on film, I will have to find them and scan them. I can't imagine that there are many variants to this badge, but the one shown looks really different from the one I owned. I had a period picture of the vet in Austria with the badge and numerous other souviniers.

[Jo_Rivett]

Hello Sroub
Sorry mate, thats fake. There are no variants at all of this badge.
The dead give away is the Solid rauter and skiis, and catch system. It should be hollow, correction, it Must be hollow & not cast/full like your`s is here. The two hooks/catches are also wrong. If i`m not mistaken, there is a picture of a correct badge in the Niemann N°1 or 2 catalog.
Sorry:sad:

[sroub]

Hello gents, thanks for opinions. I know, that sure original pieces have a hollow edelweiss flower. But there is only one variant?

Best, sroub.

[Jo_Rivett]

Actually in the 3rd catalog too, i just checked, here is a picture of what the reverse of an Original MUST look like. (Note the hollow edelweiß rauter and skiis & catch system)
As Wim said, because of the High value, these are faked alot, and in recent years, quite a few fakes have turned up, esp with different catch systems.
25645

[sroub]

Hello Sroub
Sorry mate, thats fake. There are no variants at all of this badge.
The dead give away is the Solid rauter and skiis, and catch system. It should be hollow, correction, it Must be hollow & not cast/full like your`s is here. The two hooks/catches are also wrong. If i`m not mistaken, there is a picture of a correct badge in the Niemann N°1 or 2 catalog.
Sorry:sad:

Hello Lopside, Thank you, I have seen this one for sale. Only 800€, so I wanted to know some opinion. I also think, it is a fake.

Best, sroub.

[Jo_Rivett]

Hello gents, thanks for opinions. I know, that sure original pieces have a hollow edelweiss flower. But there is only one variant?

Best, sroub.

Hi again Sroub, yes mate, there is only This pictured badge, there are no variants whatsoever, in the way it was made, that is, Because the catch system is weak, i am sure that there may be a few badges with period/Jeweler repairs that differ from the original catch system, but the design is the same.
I hope you did`nt pay too much for this:scared:
Like i said, since the late 90`s, these, and SS skiiführer badges have been turning up, that look good, but are just plain fake, being sold for 200-400 euros a pop. (There were, and probably still are, a few of these floating around on the Africa-Heros best-entiques, or Militaria-muppetshow-company... The price is usually not cheap, but also not that expensive so as to give the impresion that you can make a quick bargain......

[Jo_Rivett]

Hello Lopside, Thank you, I have seen this one for sale. Only 800€, so I wanted to know some opinion. I also think, it is a fake.

Best, sroub.

Hi Sroub, that`s just it, If Detlevs catalog says €4000.- , then you can imagine, that IF it was real, someone who knows what they are doing, would alreday have snapped it up, and sold it to a dealer for € 2500.- and made a quick buck.
IMO, i very much doubt if you will ever see an original scarce piece like this, or the SS Skiiführer badge ion a normal internet auction platform, and most certainly not for €800.-

I know of a guy in the US, who had one up on his site last year the same as yours, for $450.- !!!!!!!!!

[sroub]

Hi Sroub, that`s just it, If Detlevs catalog says €4000.- , then you can imagine, that IF it was real, someone who knows what they are doing, would alreday have snapped it up, and sold it to a dealer for € 2500.- and made a quick buck.
IMO, i very much doubt if you will ever see an original scarce piece like this, or the SS Skiiführer badge ion a normal internet auction platform, and most certainly not for €800.-

I know of a guy in the US, who had one up on his site last year the same as yours, for $450.- !!!!!!!!!

Hello Lopside, yes I know. I have also Niemann's last catalogue and price for this rare HJ ski badge is brutal. I was asking the seler and he told me, that it is 100% period. Haha. Do you know how many were made and how many were awarded?

Best, sroub.

[railhouse]

Hi yes this one is fake in my oppinion

[Frank Booth]

That is the correct back, no doubt. Mine had both pins and catches broken off, and at one point the entire front piece had come detached and been poorly resoldered on, and there was also damage to the roundel with the lettering, partially obliterating the HJ. The collector I sold it to had some restoration work done to it, but I never saw the finished product.

[sroub]

Hi again Sroub, yes mate, there is only This pictured badge, there are no variants whatsoever, in the way it was made, that is, Because the catch system is weak, i am sure that there may be a few badges with period/Jeweler repairs that differ from the original catch system, but the design is the same.
I hope you did`nt pay too much for this:scared:
Like i said, since the late 90`s, these, and SS skiiführer badges have been turning up, that look good, but are just plain fake, being sold for 200-400 euros a pop. (There were, and probably still are, a few of these floating around on the Africa-Heros best-entiques, or Militaria-muppetshow-company... The price is usually not cheap, but also not that expensive so as to give the impresion that you can make a quick bargain......

Hello Lopside, oh no, I didn't buy this HJ badge. These fakes which are gave here I have many years. This is relic of my beginning of collecting. Now I'm much more thinking. :) I only wanted to know another opinions. Because...maybe, some of these fakes can be reall....that's hope. Well well...best-antiques I know....Mr. Staegemeir and his expertises. Poor man I think.

Best, sroub.

[Jo_Rivett]

That is the correct back, no doubt. Mine had both pins and catches broken off, and at one point the entire front piece had come detached and been poorly resoldered on, and there was also damage to the roundel with the lettering, partially obliterating the HJ. The collector I sold it to had some restoration work done to it, but I never saw the finished product.
I am not sure what you mean here? if you think that Sroubs "back" is the correct back, then you are mistaken. there are NO variants of this badge, there are NO examples with a solid Edelweiß/Rauter/Ski, the example that i borrowed from the Niemann catalog here, is the ONLY form of this HJ skiiabzeichen!!!!
:wink:

[sroub]

That is the correct back, no doubt. Mine had both pins and catches broken off, and at one point the entire front piece had come detached and been poorly resoldered on, and there was also damage to the roundel with the lettering, partially obliterating the HJ. The collector I sold it to had some restoration work done to it, but I never saw the finished product.

Hello, can you post here pictures?

Thanks, sroub.

[Frank Booth]

Lopside, I was refer to the picture you posted as being the correct configuration for the badge, I should have made that more clear in the post. I never seen the Nieman catalog, I am just recalling from my own memory of having the badge in hand, over 8 or 9 years ago. Does the Nieman catalog have a color photo of the badge? Mine had an almost dull copper colored edelwiess, diamond, and ski stamped center piece with the roundlet being a dull silver color. I sold the badge to Jeff Hammond many years ago, and he told me he had some restoration work done to it. I will try to find the photos and scan them sometime this week.

[Jo_Rivett]

Lopside, I was refer to the picture you posted as being the correct configuration for the badge, I should have made that more clear in the post. I never seen the Nieman catalog, I am just recalling from my own memory of having the badge in hand, over 8 or 9 years ago. Does the Nieman catalog have a color photo of the badge? Mine had an almost dull copper colored edelwiess, diamond, and ski stamped center piece with the roundlet being a dull silver color. I sold the badge to Jeff Hammond many years ago, and he told me he had some restoration work done to it. I will try to find the photos and scan them sometime this week.

OK;) was`nt sure what you meant really:confused1:
No, all the pics are B/W.
At the Stuttgart show in 2007, there was this one dealer (no names mentioned) who had a similar one to that of Sroubs, and he was trying to palm it off as a Variant, saying that he knew where it came from etc etc, well, i saw him show it to 4 well known and respectable dealers for their opinions, and after each and every one had held it, and looked at it, they all agreed on the fact that, the only HJ Ski badges known to date, were produced in the way pictured in the Niemann book, ie; Hollow.

I have only ever seen the fake ones, as Sroub pictured here, and i would be the wrong person to talk to, or ask about color, as i am 100% colorblind:scared:

[Justin]

Maybe Some thing is lost in Translation? Sroub you say in Post#10 ( I was asking the seler and he told me, that it is 100% period. Haha. ) Which gave ME the impression it was a recent Conversation?

Then in Post#13 You say ( oh no, I didn't buy this HJ badge. These fakes which are gave here I have many years. This is relic of my beginning of collecting )

Correct me if i'm wrong but every thing you have posted on WWM has bean fake? Hope you were a fast learner, And look Forward to seeing your Orignal items.

[Jo_Rivett]

Sroub you say in Post#10 ( I was asking the seler and he told me, that it is 100% period. Haha. ) Which gave ME the impression it was a recent Conversation?
Then in Post#13 You say ( oh no, I didn't buy this HJ badge. These fakes which are gave here I have many years. This is relic of my beginning of collecting )
items.
Yes, i thunk about that too :001_huh:
Anyway, here is another one, being flogged at the Muppet-show-company this week for the astronomical Price of € 125.- ;) fair play though, it is actually described as what it is...a Copy :001_tongue:
2566125662

[Frank Booth]

Still looking for the close ups, but look in the lower left corner of this display and you can sort of see the color of the center part as compared to the photos of the copy posted in this thread. Hopefully I can locate the close up pics I have somewhere, this is on old photo on film and scanned from the days before digital.

[Jo_Rivett]

look in the lower left corner of this display
Lower right, surely :blushing:
Look foward to seeing better pics. Where did it go to in the end? and if you dont mind me asking, roughly $-wise?
Jo

[Frank Booth]

Lower right, surely :blushing:
Look foward to seeing better pics. Where did it go to in the end? and if you dont mind me asking, roughly $-wise?
Jo

Yes lower right, dislexia kicking in again:blushing:. The badge went to Jeff Hammond, don't know if he still has it or not. The price was pretty reasonable due to the damage to the badge. Hope to find the other photos somewhere in one of my junk drawers.

[Jo_Rivett]

Would be great to see some close ups, esp. the reverse, as i doubt that anyone here, incl. myself, has ever seen an Original:001_rolleyes:
Jo

[railhouse]

Hi last time i see your badge i think it was renovate regards tomas

[Frank Booth]

Hi last time i see your badge i think it was renovate regards tomas

Are you talking about the damaged one I sold to Jeff?

[Jo_Rivett]

Hi last time i see your badge i think it was renovate regards tomas

I guess you mean Repaired :confused: Houses are renovated, badges are repaired:sleep:
I could`nt give a monkeys, repaired or not, if it was original then it would make any HJ collection stand out like 6 fingers.
Jo

[Frank Booth]

The guy that bought has a collection that "sticks out like 6 fingers". Bannfahnes, trumpet banners, Fahnlenfahnes, Swallows tails, HJ honor goblets, etc., etc. you get the picture.

[Mike Peters]

C.R Davis wrote a fantastic article on the Skiführerabzeichen for the Summer 2006 edition of the Military Advisor. In it he explained that only 2 firms produced them …..and as Lopside mentioned , the only forms both companies made had hollow edelweiß centers.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04655.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04656.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04653.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04654.jpg

[Mike Peters]

The other known maker was "Ferdinand Hoffstatter"
Here's their example --
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04657.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04658.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04659.jpg

[Mike Peters]

There is also a non-portable Table Medal award that was produced by Wittmann ..
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04660.jpg

[Mike Peters]

Mr. Davis included a cased example --
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/MilitaryChef/DSC04661.jpg

[Frank Booth]

Mine was a Whitman.

[Mike Peters]

As long as it was H. Wittmann and not Tom :blushing:

[Frank Booth]

As long as it was H. Wittmann and not Tom :blushing:

haha yeah. I think I sold it to Jeff for around 100 bucks:eek:, but I sold my entire collection off at the time. I bought if from a guy named Keith Hagen, a retired San Diego County Sherriff, who owned a gun/militaria/coin and jewelry shop in Vista Ca.

[Mike Peters]

Wow ...Vista huh ? I'd been there back in the early 1990's and it was just starting to grow big time . I usually don't miss a Gun Store ..must have passed his by accident :crying:

[Frank Booth]

It was on Hanes Place, off S. Santa Fe. Keith used to get all sorts of good stuff from walk ins and ads. I would hang out there for hours talking just BSing with him. He passed away about 8 years ago, and all his inventory went to an auction at the Elks lodge in El Cajon. He had tons of dewated weapons, medals, badges, daggers, and stuff in his private collection, don't know what became of it all.

Edit: He used to always set up at the Del Mar crossroads of the west gun show, he was a huge guy with a long grey beard and long hair that drove a 58? corvette that was yellow and white.

[Frank Booth]

Thanks to this thread, the new owner of my old badge sent me some photos of it, but asked me not to show them. It's a beauty and the restoration work is impressive. Great to see it a such a nice collection now, kick myself many times for selling it.:crying:

[Richard Altman]

Hi,

I hope some HJ expert on this one jumps in. I only know the are extremely rare and intensive faked. I would love to hear opinions on this one.

Regards, Wim :)

This is a typical Nazi party pin with the different years and units were printed on the pins fron 33 to 39 when the Knights Cross of Iron Crosses came out and the SS uniforms changed from black to the common grey of the other branches and the few Fuhrer's bodyguards wore black after that time. That was when all the changes came about on the medals and uniforms to get more continuity making all uniforms grey and with the different signets only.
There are plenty of sights where you can look them up up you want to kow exactly what one in particular stands for. I deal in a great deal of memorabilia and Philatelic Third reich articles and also silver coins with the eagle and swastika which was adapted after 33 and also the coins with the older style eagle and during the period of 33 and 34 before the flying eagle the small swastikas by the eagle. These are uncirculated silver 90 per cent and uncirculated. I also have complete sets of all the phenning coins and 2 and 5 mark silver coins mounted in pvc free plastic holders and on velvet cards. Also have double plated 24 kt gold plated third reich sets very reasonable. send for pictures. I am selling out of my granfathers collection and am not a dealer. thanks and welcome any comments. thanks,Richard