Ordnance and Shells ?

[slayer]

Hi all I,ve got some shells and ordnance I've picked up during my holidays in France was wondering by looking at some of the numbers nad markings on the bullet shells and sizes if you could tell me what they were wehter they wer German WW1/WW2 or Allies ?

I have a shellnose with markings as well hopefully you may be able to identify it I was thinking of cleaning it up as well what would be best to do this ?


Cheers.

[slayer]

Couple more,,,,,,anyone know what the polished shell is ?

The plastic piece is some sort of German gasmask piece it's marked Asphyx ?

[Steve R]

Hello Slayer

A nice collection of items you have there which all look WW1 to me.

I have attached a selection of items for you to have a look at to help you work out what is what with the bullets. With the fuses the general rule to identify them when uncleaned and you can't see the markings is that the taller thinner ones are British and the wider (fatter) looking one willbe German so itissafe to say that you have one of each in your collection.

I have shown three bullet casings. The 2nd picture shows them best. The fatter one on the left is the French lebel round and would have been filled with black powder. The centre one is a British .303 round and would have been filled with strands of cordite and the right hand one is a German casing which would have been filled with black powder. If you look at the base of the casing you will see thaat the are very different how they fix in to the 'chargers' for rapid loading.

The bullet heads are also very different, the French I am told are made of Bronze and is the larger one shown the other is the British .303. I do not have an example of a German Bullet head as they rust away.

Hope ths helps

Steve R

[Time Bandit]

From a quick look at the pics...

All the casings in the first batch of pics would appear to be German 7.92 cases of various makers from WWI.

In the second batch of pics the case in the second picture looks like a British Kynoch made .303 from 1917 from the markings - can't see the shape of the round but it looks rimmed and I can't think of anyone else who would use the same markings?
The larger brass case looks more like a Hispano type 20mm round? Most likely WW2. Any markings on it?

[slayer]

Steve and Mike thanks heaps for taking the time to help id these shells I was always curious as to there origins when I picked the up.

The polished large shell has no visible markings I'd say your right and it would be a 20mm round, Hispano which country would have used that ?

One other thing I mentioned maybe cleaning the shellnose in the first pic would you guys recommend this or leave as is, if I was to clean would it rust up ?


Cheers Adam.

[Steve R]

Slayer

I have tried several methods to try and clean them up. In some countries there are acids that can be owned legally to clean them up bu I haven't found one in the UK.

To be honest all I do with mine is leave them outside all year round which eventually takes of the dirt but of course won't give them a shine and it depends on the sort of weather you get where you live as the snow and frosts in the UK help the cleaning process. One of the first I found I took a fine wire brush to which did improve the look of it but takes many hours. I will take a few pics of someof mine and post them this may help you decide.

Steve R

[Time Bandit]

The polished large shell has no visible markings I'd say your right and it would be a 20mm round, Hispano which country would have used that ?

All about the Hispano-Suiza HS.404 20mm cannon... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano-Suiza_HS.404)

[Time Bandit]

Nearly forgot...about cleaning the fuse.

I guess you could try dumping it in a bucket of diesel for a few weeks and see what happens? Diesel is sometimes quite good for cleaning things up and releasing things that's stuck.
I guess you could use acid but you would have to be careful to don't get something too strong which might eat away at the fuse? I cleaned a casing (strangely enough it was a 20mm Hispano round as above) with acid, I'm not sure what it was though it was just lying around the old man's workshop, possibly sulphuric acid if I mind on for car batteries (he ran a garage) which I diluted a bit. It cleaned the casing a bit but it was nowt special, maybe I could of left it in longer but I wasn't too keen as I didn't know if the acid would eat into the brass. The other thing that might possibly be worth a try is brick cleaning acid, you should be able to get that okay at a builders merchant?

[slayer]

Mike and Steve, thanks again for the info.

I've been thinking I might just clean off the excess dirt and grime and then leave as is after all it's over 90 years old.

If you could post some pics of your shells Steve that would be good to see what you did.

Cheers, Adam.

[Steve R]

A selection of my fuses found on the Somme about 18 Months ago. All of these were covered in hard mud and chalk, in fact the second one shown was almost completely white but as with the others they have been left outside to let nature do its work.

The last fuse is of particular interest, if you look closely you can see that there are still three of the original shrapnell balls attached to the fuse. Number are becoming clearly visible on these fuses now but it will depend on your countries climate how long they take to clean off completly.

Steve

:thumbup1:

[AndyD]

Phosphoric acid is supposed to be quite good,so is diluted sulphuric acid.

I use a brass bristled brush with diesel and give the fuze a good scrub,then I use heat from my blowtorch which also helps to clean crud off (make absolutely sure the fuze is inert before doing this!!).

I then use a rough polishing mop on my drill soaked with oil.

It takes time,but it works!

Cheers,
Andy

[Steve R]

Andy

Thanks for that I will give it a try. If you have any information on fuses can you please post it for the benefit of the members.

Regards

Steve R

:thumbup1:

[slayer]

Andy thanks for the info have you got any pics of your cleaned up fuses ?

[AndyD]

Unfortunately, I have no 'before' pics only 'after' ones!

Next time I do one I'll take pics throught the process and post them.

Kind regards,
Andy