Unknown Maker

[Ben Evans]

Hi guys, for those that dont know I am always looking to uncover new makers and find the missing links to the M4 makers list. A member of the WAF forum has a Tunnerbund buckle with the maker V & Co, has anyone any information on this maker at all?

Thanks

[wilhelm saris]

It might be Voss & Co from Hemer, who mainly manufactured Uniform-Effekten. For Turnerbund-buckles no RZM permission was needed.
If a manufacturer is not amongst the M4, one should look amongst the M5 and one can probably find the manufacturer.

[Gew44]

Hi,
it's possible also F.K. Vogelsang & Co , Lüdenscheid --- M4/78 ????

[wilhelm saris]

Yes, could be. I agree....,
but knowing the system it is practically sure it would have had more letters with Vogelsang. He surely would have included anyway the F.

[Ben Evans]

Hey guys, cracking ideas, I must admit I do like the Voss & Co, I have found that German makers did put their initials on their makers marks, Voss could possibly hit the mark, thanks again fellas :thumbup:

[Gew44]

Yes, could be. I agree....,
but knowing the system it is practically sure it would have had more letters with Vogelsang. He surely would have included anyway the F.

Hi Wilhelm,
not ever.

I think for example F.W Assmann & Söhne you find only the "A" marking.

[wilhelm saris]

Yes, I know, but that has another reason.
FW (Friedrich Wilhelm) was the person who founded the company in 1835, which possibly proceeded from the company that a certain Leopold Wilhelm started in about 1796.
May 6, 1862 the concern was then named as F.W.Assmann & Söhne, the name that it kept even after the war.
In 1864 the sons Fritz and Eugen took over the company. The name Assmann was enough and best known to all in Germany. Note that F.W.Assmann was registered with the trademarking "A", which we all know. This is the main reason for using simply the "A", the registration trademark!

A second reason may have been that another concern F.W.(Julius) Assmann did exist, which manufactured flags. And some others did have the same name: Gustav Assmann, Heinrich Leopold Assmann, Ludwig Assmann, Peter Assmann, Peter Wilhelm Assmann and Assmann & Bovet. Most of them did not exist anymore during the III.Reich.

[Gew44]

Thanks wilhelm,
as usual accurate and complete information. :thumbup1:
Excuse me, but I did not want to be rude or questioning your knowledge, you are right in retrospect you as the mark of the buckle is Turnebund pre-RZM (it is printed with the words).
Had he been RZM was M4, many factory producers items before RZM and after the RZM did not receive the license: for example the F. Dick daggers factory on RZM list M7 does not have any code, but you can only find his mark in literature on SA daggers.

Thanks a lot for your attention :)

Warmest regards :wink:

[wilhelm saris]

No, you were not rude or whatever.

I really do appreciate it when there do come comments. From looking into my material and files I again do learn and enlarge so my own knowledge.
When I can explain it - and this is a very difficult matter, as one should have in fact information about all registrations and/of trademarks to get a final solution - I will explain and help others! I am not as some: sitting on my material and not doing a thing with it.
And I am not "God". I do not know all. I always say that my knowledge about what the Germans did in those years, may cover 5-10%. So for me the remaining 90% is still a question.
I have still to learn and who knows all? Nobody!
Even after having done enormous research for an article or book, you always will have a gap or cannot find at all information about a subject.

And to help: no, the RZM was not so accurate as we all may think. Sometimes they even do not announce a new permission and so always a gap will remain in existing lists. Or: not always the revoking of a permission was mentioned/published, so also here mistakes can be made.