SA Treffen Braunschweig 1931

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Guys, this badge started life as a humble "tinnie" but as this SA rally was a big sucess for the Nazi's before they came to power in 1933, it was later given a special status. The badge was raised to that of a Party decoration.

Early badges sold at the rally were hollow back.

This example from my collection is a later badge made of zinc. Maker marked RZM M1/35. (Wachtler & Lange, Mittweida.)

Cheers, Ade.

[Jo_Rivett]

No examples, but a Period Picture of a Boot-stomping-head-kicking SA Man wearing one.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Thanks Jo. :thumbup1:

Cheers, Ade.

[Jo_Rivett]

... there was a nice original with a few bobs and knobs i bought, but until i get the camera back, i cant take pics... until i do, i`ll bump this thread back up in preparation by showing a L♥vely FAKE.. i very much doubt it would fool a blind man`s dog, but nonetheless ...

[Erich S]

... there was a nice original with a few bobs and knobs i bought, but until i get the camera back, i cant take pics... until i do, i`ll bump this thread back up in preparation by showing a L♥vely FAKE.. i very much doubt it would fool a blind man`s dog, but nonetheless ...

Yes Jo that's a really bad fake. For me, I like the hollow back ones because the detail is better than the RZM solid back versions IMO. As far as the 1st type, I have not found one that I would be happy with due to the many fake ones out there. The original 1st type badge must have impressed lettering and most of the badges on dealer sites are bad IMO.

[Jo_Rivett]

Here we go. :001_wub:

[Jo_Rivett]

Forgot to mention that it`s the 1931 second version with long vertical needle. There are hollow backs like this with a horizontal smaller needle, and of course, post 1931 Hollow backs that are RZM marked ! and of course the last variation as posted above, solid with RZM marks. Not a fantastically expensive badge, the Fat-Boy 1931 version is worth more and rarer. But a nice Badge :thumbup: There was a photo that came with this, that apparently shows a soldier wearing this exact same badge, The seller i trust, but stories like this i never trust, so i only show the badge.

[sodak222]

Wasn't this 1933 nurnberg rally badge also given special status by the Fuhrer?
Rod

[Erich S]

Wasn't this 1933 nurnberg rally badge also given special status by the Fuhrer?
Rod

That's a nice original that you posted Jo.
Rod, the 33 RPT was not listed as one of the Honor awards decreed by Hitler in 1936. The 33 badge was considered a traditions badge.

[Erich S]

That's a nice original that you posted Jo.
Rod, the 33 RPT was not listed as one of the Honor awards decreed by Hitler in 1936. The 33 badge was considered a traditions badge.

Rod, one final point, all the Honor awards decreed were from the time of struggle. The reason the 33 badge was not included was it came to be after Hitler took power.

[Jo_Rivett]

Would anyone know more or less when the Solid Braunschweig badges like the first one pictured were made? I ask because in a 1940`s Assmann Catalog, they are still selling the Hollow back ones like i showed? Could it maybe just have been certain makers that made the solid ones?

[Erich S]

Would anyone know more or less when the Solid Braunschweig badges like the first one pictured were made? I ask because in a 1940`s Assmann Catalog, they are still selling the Hollow back ones like i showed? Could it maybe just have been certain makers that made the solid ones?

Jo, they finished making the badge by 1940 because those who earned them already had them by that date. The only reason they would still produce them would be for sale to those who may have wanted an extra.
Others made the solid back badges but Assmann is the only one mentioned in most of the older reference books.

[sodak222]

Thanks for the info Erich.
Rod

[der-hase-fee]

This one is really an eyesore !

[Erich S]

Yep it's a bad one. If you take a look in Niemann's catalog he has an original 1st type pictured.

[der-hase-fee]

Currently offered at: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206532705

THIS IS A GUARANTEED ORIGINAL. IF YOU COMPARE THE EAGLE'S HEAD AND OTHER FEATURES SUCH AS THE LETTERING TO OTHERS BEING SOLD FOR LESS YOU WILL SEE THEY DONT HOLD GROUND TO THE QUALITY OF AN ORIGINAL. THIS IS THE 1ST TYPE TYPE A WHICH IS QUIRE SCARCE. THE OTHER TYPES ARE EASIER TO FIND. DIE STAMPED ZINC. THIS ONE STILL HAS SOME OF THE PLATING LEFT.

[Erich S]

Currently offered at: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206532705

THIS IS A GUARANTEED ORIGINAL. IF YOU COMPARE THE EAGLE'S HEAD AND OTHER FEATURES SUCH AS THE LETTERING TO OTHERS BEING SOLD FOR LESS YOU WILL SEE THEY DONT HOLD GROUND TO THE QUALITY OF AN ORIGINAL. THIS IS THE 1ST TYPE TYPE A WHICH IS QUIRE SCARCE. THE OTHER TYPES ARE EASIER TO FIND. DIE STAMPED ZINC. THIS ONE STILL HAS SOME OF THE PLATING LEFT.

This one is not original IMO.

[Erich S]

Here's a solid back that I just picked up.

[der-hase-fee]

Here's a solid back that I just picked up.

What happened to your M1/17 preference, Erich ?

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4046237&postcount=3

[Erich S]

Here's a solid back that I just picked up.

Others did make this badge and I still like the Assmann badges. The badge that started this thread I have my doubts about though. The details of the badge is what one must look at to determine authenticity.

[Erich S]

Others did make this badge and I still like the Assmann badges. The badge that started this thread I have my doubts about though. The details of the badge is what one must look at to determine authenticity.

After taking another look at the first badge in this thread it's fine.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Erich, your badge looks fine to me too.

I bought mine about 33 years ago.

Cheers, Ade.

[Erich S]

Hi Adrian, I think my eyes were paying tricks on me LOL! Some feel these badges were only tinnies but like the 29 RPT badges they were in fact badges of honor!

[Colin Davie]

Hi Adrian, I think my eyes were paying tricks on me LOL! Some feel these badges were only tinnies but like the 29 RPT badges they were in fact badges of honor!

Bit of a no-brainer M1=AWARD M9=TINNIE
Nice badges.
C

[Jo_Rivett]

Bit of a no-brainer M1=AWARD M9=TINNIE
Nice badges.
C

I Dont know? it depends if one has brains to start with.
M1 has nothing to do with Awards, just as M9 has nothing really to do with Tinnies :laugh:

M1 = Herrschaftsabzeichen, ie: Official badges and Insignia. (nothing to do with Awards)
M9 = Tagungsabzeichen, ie: Day badges/event Badges.

There are Awards made in the Tinnies fashion, there are badges for all kinds of Organizations too that were made in a Tinnie form. There are Official Items too made in the Tinnie form but that carry the M1 numbering system.
Tinnies, or Day Badges, or event badges, were also made from Pappe, Leather, Plastic, Wood, Glass, cotton etc etc... so not day badges are made from thin stamped metal, as well as not all badges from thin stamped metal fall into the M9 category.

So therefore it`s wrong (and not Factually correct) to lump all tinnies together in the M9, or Event badge category. But to say that M1 = Awards is plain wrong.:blushing:

[Colin Davie]

[QUOTE=Jo_Rivett;54101]I Dont know? it depends if one has brains to start with.
M1 has nothing to do with Awards,

Are the Hitler Youth sports badges awards or not? Don't spout any of your nonsense just answer yes or no.
Are the awarded pieces (serial numbered) marked M1 or not?
Is it not "plain wrong" to say M1 "has nothing to do with awards"?

just as M9 has nothing really to do with Tinnies :laugh:

Tinnies IMO are the daybadges, so called because they are often made of tin, they are marked M9, yes I'm well aware they are not always made of tin, I've collected them for 35 years..... M9 = Tinnie, not party badges, not just any badge with a pin, but the daybadges IMO

So to make it simple for you... any badge marked M1 is (IMO) NEVER "just a tinnie"... do you get it?

BTW not all mothers crosses are fake either, while I'm talking to you.

Dude you really do spout some serious **** :cool:
C

[Jo_Rivett]

[QUOTE=Jo_Rivett;54101]I Dont know? it depends if one has brains to start with.
M1 has nothing to do with Awards,

Are the Hitler Youth sports badges awards or not? Don't spout any of your nonsense just answer yes or no.
Are the awarded pieces (serial numbered) marked M1 or not?
Is it not "plain wrong" to say M1 "has nothing to do with awards"?

just as M9 has nothing really to do with Tinnies :laugh:

Tinnies IMO are the daybadges, so called because they are often made of tin, they are marked M9, yes I'm well aware they are not always made of tin, I've collected them for 35 years..... M9 = Tinnie, not party badges, not just any badge with a pin, but the daybadges IMO

So to make it simple for you... any badge marked M1 is (IMO) NEVER "just a tinnie"... do you get it?

BTW not all mothers crosses are fake either, while I'm talking to you.

Dude you really do spout some serious **** :cool:
C

It is because of people like you, that many dont want anything more to do with the forums. Tiring...very tiring.. and Trying as well.

Please get your Basic Historical FACTS correct before you try and get into an argument about a subject you clearly know little about.

The RZM M1 system had, and has, NOTHING to do with Awards. Period, thats a fact. You can hum and har all you want, that is just the way it was. Yes some awards do carry the M1 number, but only because they were put on an OFFICIAL badge.
And the term Official Badge is not the same as Awarded. And to say that M1=Awards like you just posted is wrong, so accept it, maybe you meant to phrase that differently? Maybe you actually meant to post something constructive, and enlighten the newcomers on your knowledge? Maybe you meant to expand? or maybe you just did not know what the RZM numbers systems were for and were fishing for info? hoping someone who set you straight?

The M9 word Tinnie is an American "thing" and is wrong. It has though, come to be used as a term for all Day/event badges.... although not all Tinnies fell under the M9 code.
So you see how much you confuse yourself? M9 is tinnies? then there are M1 that are also tinnies, and awards and many other things that are also in a Tinnie form... so therefore it`s once again the American influence that has ruined what should basically be called Event/day badges, there should be no such category as Tinnie ! and certainly not the M9 category.

You are upset because i did not answer you on WAF about the Mothers Cross? sorry accept it or collect something else.(or at least do some homework on the post war Mothers Cross`) Like i told you on WAF, and when you write... DONT SPOUT YOUR NONSENSE here, well you know my reply to you will be face to face, so i will save webspace. Stick to WAF, where 18 year old kids know what a genuine Adolf Sig looks like :laugh: No need to get in a Huff now, i guess it boils down to where you get your info from? Homework or Juvenile posts made by people who still believe that Hitler is alive and well.

[Colin Davie]

Jo Rivett, Jo Fuess, Jo Brand and my personal favourite Jo Ke...
I never commented on the mothers cross thread, so as usual whole sentences of complete nonsense from you. I read it and like everyone else that read it saw you for what you are.. :thumbdown:

You make yourself out to be an expert on The party badge, but you don't even know what you collect !!:001_rolleyes:

The wearing of an NSDAP party badge was a priviledge not a right, the wearing of ANY badge marked M1 was a priviledge and not a right .. not my opinion but a fact.

Can you show me a badge (any badge) marked M1 which did not require certified authorization for wear?

So for your simple mind.. :blink:

Wearing a badge on your person marked M1 = Better have a certificate of authorization in your back pocket, because if you have'nt been AWARDED the right to wear it, you might just be going to jail or worse.

Wearing a badge marked M9 = You bought the T-Shirt.

The point I was making is - by definition of being marked M1 this badge is clearly not "just a tinnie" which in this case can only be read as "just a daybadge" if you want to be pedantic.

This badge is marked M1, and if - in the day - you wanted to wear or buy one you needed to be AWARDED the right to do so and needed to be able to prove it.

I really don't consider it too big a play on words to say that if you have been certified/authorized to wear a specific badge that other people without the certified authorization cannot wear by law, then yes you can consider yourself to have been AWARDED something.. why not?

[Colin Davie]

You are upset because i did not answer you on WAF about the Mothers Cross? sorry accept it or collect something else.(or at least do some homework on the post war Mothers Cross`) Like i told you on WAF, and when you write... DONT SPOUT YOUR NONSENSE here, well you know my reply to you will be face to face, so i will save webspace. Stick to WAF, where 18 year old kids know what a genuine Adolf Sig looks like :laugh: No need to get in a Huff now, i guess it boils down to where you get your info from? Homework or Juvenile posts made by people who still believe that Hitler is alive and well.


Classic, thanx for a good laugh (again) if nothing else
C

[der-hase-fee]

Being offered at 300 Euro each.

[Erich S]

I don't like either of them.:thumbdown:

[der-hase-fee]

What do you think of this one ?

[Erich S]

I like it.

[der-hase-fee]

I like it.

There really was a solid edition of the first, round badge ? Never seen one before.

[Erich S]

This is the second that I have seen that I like and would be comfortable with it in my collection.

[der-hase-fee]

Helmut Weitze is currently offering this one for 420 Euro.

[Erich S]

Not one I would want. Hey,if anyone has a nice 2nd pattern hollow back badge, I'm looking for one.

[Jo_Rivett]

Not one I would want. Hey,if anyone has a nice 2nd pattern hollow back badge, I'm looking for one.

NO, but Weitze has a nice screw back Coburg if you were interested :D
►► Coburg (https://www.weitze.net/detail/29/Coburger_Abzeichen_1922_1932__156829.html) ◄◄

[der-hase-fee]

Not one I would want. Hey,if anyone has a nice 2nd pattern hollow back badge, I'm looking for one.

NO, but Weitze has a nice screw back Coburg if you were interested :D
►► Coburg (https://www.weitze.net/detail/29/Coburger_Abzeichen_1922_1932__156829.html) ◄◄

Right on, fellas.

Good to have you back, Jo. :thumbup: Another medical procedure ? :mellow:

[Erich S]

Hi JO, unfortunately the Coburg Baadge that I have is the only one that I can afford these days with two kids being in College!:scared:

[Gaspare]

the one in post # 32 looks like a copy of the super rare 1st pattern,,I'm not a believer in that solid back.............

[Erich S]

G, i like the badge and have seen a few of these solid back versions. One even had period engraving with the recipients name which I liked very much.

[Gaspare]

In the Huffman book Ithink there is measurements of something [Treffen?],, for a quickie it'd be best to compare to see of the solid back measurements are smaller..

[Erich S]

I was just added this nice 1st type badge to my collection today!

[der-hase-fee]

I was just added this nice 1st type badge to my collection today!

Great ! Did somebody respond to your WANTED ad ?

[Erich S]

Yes!:thumbup:

[Gaspare]

solid or hollow?:biggrin:

[Erich S]

It's hollow G!

[der-hase-fee]

The badge that started this thread I have my doubts about though. [later post: After taking another look at the first badge in this thread it's fine.]

The details of the badge is what one must look at to determine authenticity.

Came across these 2 today.

Erich was showing his M1/63, comparing it to a M1/35.